Wong Kar-wai Exclusive Interview

Two lovers embrace one another and make love. Just moments later, one abandons the other on the roadside. So begins the trajectory of "Happy Together", the latest film by director Wong Kar-wai. It is a road fraught with loss, sadness, and the misplaced expectations of not just the two characters of the film, but the film itself, which explores these elements to find things not quite as they are expected to be. The image of Argentina, where the film takes place, of homosexuality (the two lovers are male), are just two of these elements.

We talked to Wong Kar-wai about his film and about misplaced expectations.

Question: What have you been doing for the past couple days in New York?

Wong Kar-wai: Two of my films are being shown in the New York Film Festival so I just dropped by and also because one of the films, "Happy Together," is going to be released in this country; it's showing in New York City already, and so we're spending time doing interviews.

Question: The name of your film is "Happy Together." What is happiness?

Wong Kar-wai: (pause) What kind of question is that? (laughs)

Question: The film is called "Happy Together" and the characters in the movie move through this relationship in which they are happy and sad, and we wanted to get an idea of what you felt happiness was, and how the characters try to achieve happiness.

Wong Kar-wai: In this film, some audiences will say that the title seems to be very cynical, because it is about two persons living together, and at the end, they are just separate. But to me, happy together can apply to two persons or apply to a person and his past, and I think sometimes when a person is at peace with himself and his past, I think it is the beginning of a relationship which can be happy, and also he can be more open to more possibilities in the future with other people.

Question: The characters in the film, what sort of progression do they make towards that sort of peace, do they start moving towards some sort of peace in the film towards the end?

Wong Kar-wai: Yeah, I think so, because they start as exiles, and I think at the end it's kind of a return. He's going back to his daily life, his own cities, and going to face his own people.

Question: Did you have a similiar feeling yourself while being in Argentina, being away from HK?

Wong Kar-wai: Yeah, because we wanted to make this film in Argentina because we didn't want to make this film in HK, and the reason we didn't want to make this film in HK because people kept asking me about this film, is it about HK 1997, which I hate so much, so I would rather make this film somewhere else. But we spent four months, and we realized that, in fact, we missed HK very much; we all wanted to go back home. In a way, I don't have an answer about what happened after 1997 in HK, but somehow at the end of this film I realized we have at least provided a wish, not an answer - that is Happy Together.

Question: Could you explain what draws the two characters to each other, what the nature of their relationship is?

Wong Kar-wai: Well, to me, the relationship seems like a plane and an airport. The character Leslie Cheung is to me like a plane. His nature is going toland sometimes and going to take off sometimes. And the character of Tony Leung seems to me just like an airport. But sometimes, when this airport refuses to be an airport anymore and the plane has no place to land, this is the end of the relationship.

Question: You mentioned at the New York Film Festival that one of the reasons you chose homosexuality as the topic for this film is because you felt other recent depictions of homosexuals in HK films were inadequate. Are you happy with the depiction of homosexuality in this film?

Wong Kar-wai: I would like to put it this way. I'm not satisfied with most of the HK films about this topic because they treat it specially; there must be something different. And to me I'm happy with "Happy Together" because there is nothing different. It is the story about two persons living together, and it so happens that the two persons, they are both men. The story can apply to a man and a woman, or two women, even a man and a tree. And I'm very curious because I've made six films so far, and the first five are stories about men and women, and people never ask why you make a film about a man and woman? But after "Happy Together", people kept asking me about 'why you make a film about two men?', and I think, maybe when people stop asking these questions, then there won't be any difference in making a gay film or a film about a man and a woman.

Question: It was reported loosely in the American media that there were some disputes between you and the Rolling Thunder unit of Miramax in terms of the distribution of "Chungking Express." What took so long for Fallen Angels to finally be distributed in the U.S., which will be released in February, and also why aren't the films being distributed through Miramax, and instead are being distributed through Kino International?

Wong Kar-wai: Well, I don't think Rolling Thunder is very active in the last two years, because I don't think they have acquired any other films. It's also because I think for the other distributors, they had to make up their minds to release two of my films, Fallen Angels and Happy Together, so I think that is the reason why it takes a while.

Question: In two of your films, "Fallen Angels" and "Happy Together", there are somewhat shocking, explicitly graphic sexual scenes. What did you want to accomplish by having those scenes in both of those films, "Fallen Angels", with the scene of the woman masturbating, and "Happy Together", in the introductory scene?

Wong Kar-wai: Well, in "Fallen Angels", I think the character of Michelle Reis is very safe, she's very safe about everything, she refuses to have any involvment or contact, actual physical contact, with anybody, and so she prefers to enjoy herself, rather than have real sex with the person she loves. And in "Happy Together", because I think we should make this film as straight foward as possible, and the film is about distance, so I wanted to show these two characters in the first scene, and they are in fact very close to each other, because they are making love. At the end they are almost at the other side of the world from each other. So this is the point of these two scenes in these two films.

Question: In "Chungking Express", you have a scene with Brigitte Lin and a group of Indians and in Happy Together you have a similar scene with a number of Argentinians in the building which Tony Leung's character is staying. What did you want to convey with the image of non-HK people in each of these films?

Wong Kar-wai: No, I think the point is, because "Chungking Express" was made in Hong Kong, and the main setting is the Chungking Mansion, which is a building with more two hundred hostels, and they said there are more than 5000 tourists from all over the world living in that building every night, so it is what actually happened in that building. In Argentina, because there are few Chinese communities in Argentina, especially in Buenos Aires, so I think these two guys have to live in a place with a lot of Argentinos, so this is the background of the story.

Question: But what do you think is the meaning of each of these images to the Hong Kong audience? How would they perceive these images?

Wong Kar-wai: They would accept it as the background of the story, and they won't ask why. It's not about alienation of identity, it is the background of the stories, and I think it would be very interesting.

Question: Do you find that when people ask you about your films that they often talk about identity?

Wong Kar-wai: No, I think people think of my films as very complicated films, there are so many motifs and so many themes, symbols, but to me, my films are very straightforward or very simple. I always said my film is almost too simple to be a film.

Question: But in French magazines, you've made a couple of interviews, because you are also very successful there, the way French people use to describe your movies is always in a very complicated way.

Wong Kar-wai: French are very complicated people, you know...

Question: How do you manage the interviews with them?

Wong Kar-wai: Well, I just keep trying to tell them my film is very simple, don't think of it as something very difficult.

Question: And how did you feel to be awarded in Cannes?

Wong Kar-wai: We were very surprised, and of course we were very happy because we are the first HK film and also the last HK film to be in the competition before the handover, and so it was very special to us.

Question: With the handover of Hong Kong to China has there been any change within the film industry itself in how the mainland should be portrayed in HK films, any pressure either internally or externally, as opposed to, say, a couple of years ago?

Wong Kar-wai: For instance, we wanted to make Happy Together and complete the film and release the film before the handover, because we don't know what would happen afterwards. It's been three months since the handover, and we didn't see anything which is quite different from before, and I believe if we are going to make this film and release this film in HK now, it wouldn't be any problem. But, of course, if you make this film in China, or release this film in China, I think it's im possible. So I would say the situation in HK seems so far so good.

Question: And there hasn't been any evident pressure to show mainland China in a certain way...

Wong Kar-wai: I don't think this kind of things will happen in these two or three years, and I think the whole process will be very slow, and maybe take, like, 10 or 15 years. I think that it will be very obvious on our next generation.

Question: Do you plan to continue making films in Hong Kong?

Wong Kar-wai: Yeah.

Question: Because there are other filmmakers which are going to Hollywood ...

Wong Kar-wai: I think there are more than 500 film directors in Hong Kong, there only 5 or 6 who are going to Hollywood, and, somehow, I think I would prefer to stay in Hong Kong to make more films.

Question: Could you understand their motivations?

Wong Kar-wai: I think this is very simple. To work in Hollywood means you can work with bigger stars, with bigger budgets, and, why not?

Question: You mentioned big stars, but aren't HK stars that big?

Wong Kar-wai: I don't think Chow Yun Fat is bigger than John Travolta, international-wise.

Question: But what about the Asian people?

Wong Kar-wai: Well, of course, we know. For some directors, they were willing to work with them (big American stars), because they would be very, very happy, and to some of them they are just like dreams. And you must understand in HK, I think most of the filmmakers, they are not from film school. They learn how to make a film in cinemas, and most of them learned from Hollywood cinemas. So I think it is kind of a dream for them to work in Hollywood.

Question: How did Chang Chen, who played the character in the Taiwanese restaurant, become cast in the role for Happy Together?

Wong Kar-wai: At first, I tried to concentrate the story on two characters, Leslie and Tony Leung, and somehow, because we had problems with the union, and the production house in Argentina, so we had to wait for more than two months, and we knew Leslie had to go because he had committed to a world tour concert before this project, and I knew the story was not complete yet. I had to change the story so it would be a story about Tony Leung, and I thought I needed one more force to balance the whole thing, and I think it would be a young guy, something like the younger version of Leslie, and it reminds me of Chang Chen, because I met him in Berlin the years before, and I think he's very much like the younger days of Leslie Cheung. So I called him up, and he just joined us in Buenos Aires.

Question: Why didn't you use Takeshi?

Wong Kar-wai: He was not available...

Question: The character that Chang Chen plays in "Happy Together" seems similar to the character in Fallen Angels...

Wong Kar-wai: Of Takeshi?

Question: Was that your sense too?

Wong Kar-wai: I think to me they are not so similar. To me, Takeshi Kaneshiro is always a kid, he's not a man, or a young man, to me he's a kid. And Chang Chen, to me, is a very young man. He's not a kid.

Wong Kar-wai: Yes, in fact, he felt very shocked when we were making the first scene on the first day, and he was kind of unprepared, and he remained speechless for three days. So I had to explain to him, if I can make you fall in love with a can of sardines in "Chungking Express," why can't I make you fall in love with a man in this film, and I think it helped.

Question: So he didn't know prior to the scene what the film was going to be about?

Wong Kar-wai: Well, he knew the film was about two men, but he didn't think it, well, it would be so direct. And also he always thinks I'm making a joke on him, because he knows I always change the scripts, so maybe I'm not serious, I'm just trying to make him nervous. But on the first day of shooting, he realized I was serious and I was going to make film with these two men making love with each other, and he was kind of shocked.

Question: Is there still something wrong with being gay in Asia?

Wong Kar-wai: No, I think it's not wrong; as an actor they have so many considerations, and also this is the first time he is playing a gay role in a film, and so he would be very nervous about it.

Question: Leslie was probably more comfortable with it...

Wong Kar-wai: I think he was more relaxed because he appeared in films like "Farewell, My Concubine," and I think it's much easier for Leslie.

Conducted October 27, 1997 for WBAI, 99.5, New York, conducted by Khoi Lebinh and David Eng